LegCo Paper No. CB(3) 718/95-96
THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
MINUTES
No. 25 of 1995/96
Minutes of the sitting held on Wednesday 24 April 1996 at 2.30 p.m.
Members present:
President :
The Honourable Andrew WONG Wang-fat, O.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable Allen LEE Peng-fei, C.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable Mrs Selina CHOW LIANG Shuk-yee, O.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable SZETO Wah
The Honourable LAU Wong-fat, O.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable Edward HO Sing-tin, O.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable Ronald Joseph ARCULLI, O.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable Mrs Miriam LAU Kin-yee, O.B.E., J.P.
Dr the Honourable Edward LEONG Che-hung, O.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable Albert CHAN Wai-yip
The Honourable CHEUNG Man-kwong
The Honourable CHIM Pui-chung
The Honourable Frederick FUNG Kin-kee
The Honourable Michael HO Mun-ka
Dr the Honourable HUANG Chen-ya, M.B.E.
The Honourable Emily LAU Wai-hing
The Honourable LEE Wing-tat
The Honourable Eric LI Ka-cheung, J.P.
The Honourable Fred LI Wah-ming
The Honourable Henry TANG Ying-yen, J.P.
Dr the Honourable Samuel WONG Ping-wai, M.B.E., F.Eng., J.P.
Dr the Honourable Philip WONG Yu-hong
The Honourable Howard YOUNG, J.P.
The Honourable Zachary WONG Wai-yin
The Honourable Christine LOH Kung-wai
The Honourable James TIEN Pei-chun, O.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable LEE Cheuk-yan
The Honourable CHAN Kam-lam
The Honourable CHAN Wing-chan
The Honourable CHAN Yuen-han
The Honourable Andrew CHENG Kar-foo
The Honourable Paul CHENG Ming-fun
The Honourable CHENG Yiu-tong
Dr the Honourable Anthony CHEUNG Bing-leung
The Honourable CHEUNG Hon-chung
The Honourable CHOY Kan-pui, J.P.
The Honourable David CHU Yu-lin
The Honourable Albert HO Chun-yan
The Honourable IP Kwok-him
The Honourable LAU Chin-shek
The Honourable Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen, J.P.
Dr the Honourable LAW Cheung-kwok
The Honourable LAW Chi-kwong
The Honourable LEE Kai-ming
The Honourable LEUNG Yiu-chung
The Honourable Bruce LIU Sing-lee
The Honourable LO Suk-ching
The Honourable MOK Ying-fan
The Honourable Margaret NG
The Honourable NGAN Kam-chuen
The Honourable SIN Chung-kai
The Honourable TSANG Kin-shing
Dr the Honourable John TSE Wing-ling
The Honourable Mrs Elizabeth WONG CHIEN Chi-lien, C.B.E., I.S.O., J.P.
The Honourable Lawrence YUM Sin-ling
Members absent:
The Honourable Martin LEE Chu-ming, Q.C., J.P.
Dr the Honourable David LI Kwok-po, O.B.E., LL.D.(Cantab), J.P.
The Honourable NGAI Shiu-kit, O.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable James TO Kun-sun
Dr the Honourable YEUNG Sum
Public officers attending:
- The Honourable Mrs Anson CHAN, C.B.E., J.P.
- The Chief Secretary
- Mr Gordon SIU Kwing-chue, J.P.
- The Financial Secretary
- The Honourable Jeremy Fell MATHEWS, C.M.G., J.P.
- The Attorney General
- Mr Haider Hatim Tyebjee BARMA, I.S.O., J.P.
- Secretary for Transport
- Mrs Katherine FOK LO Shiu-ching, O.B.E., J.P.
- Secretary for Health and Welfare
- Mr Rafael HUI Si-yan, J.P.
- Secretary for Financial Services
- Mr Joseph WONG Wing-ping, J.P.
- Secretary for Education and Manpower
- Mr Peter LAI Hing-ling, J.P.
- Secretary for Security
- Miss Denise YUE Chung-yee, J.P.
- Secretary for Trade and Industry
- Mr Bowen LEUNG Po-wing, J.P.
- Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands
- Mr Alan LAI Nin, J.P.
- Secretary for the Treasury
- Mr Leo KWAN Wing-wah, J.P.
- Secretary for Economic Services
- Mrs Stella HUNG KWOK Wai-ching, J.P.
- Secretary for Home Affairs
Clerks in attendance:
Mr Ricky FUNG Choi-cheung, Secretary General
Mr LAW Kam-sang, Deputy Secretary General
Miss Pauline NG Man-wah, Assistant Secretary General (1)
Mr Ray CHAN Yum-mou, Assistant Secretary General (3)
The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Standing Order 14(2):
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1. Official Languages (Alteration of Text) (Supplementary Medical Professions Ordinance) Order 1996
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154/96
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2. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Enforcement of Rights (Extension of Time) Ordinance) Order
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(C) 29/96
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3. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Supplementary Medical Professions Ordinance) Order
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(C) 30/96
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4. Commissioner for Administrative Complaints Ordinance (Amendment of Schedule 1) Order 1996
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155/96
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5. Schedule of Routes (Citybus Limited) Order 1996
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156/96
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6. Medical Registration (Amendment) Ordinance 1995 (87 of 1995) (Commencement) Notice 1996
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158/96
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7. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Port Control (Cargo Working Areas) Ordinance) Order
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(C) 31/96
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8. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Protected Places (Safety) Ordinance) Order
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(C) 32/96
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9. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Disposal of Uncollected Goods Ordinance) Order
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(C) 33/96
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10. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Protection of Non-Government Certificates of Origin Ordinance) Order
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(C) 34/96
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11. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Limitation Ordinance) Order
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(C) 35/96
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12. Stamp Duty (Jobbing Business) (Options Market Makers) Regulation
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159/96
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13. Residential Care Homes (Elderly Persons) (Amendment) Regulation 1996
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160/96
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14. Adoption (Amendment) Rules 1996
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161/96 |
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No. 74
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Report of changes to the approved Estimates of Expenditure approved during the third quarter of 1995-96 Public Finance Ordinance : Section 8
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No. 75
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Mass Transit Railway Corporation Annual Report 1995
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No. 76
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Kowloon-Canton Railway Corporation Annual Report 1995
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No. 77
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Report of the Broadcasting Authority September 1994 - August 1995
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No. 78
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Report of the Director of Audit on the results of value for money audits March 1996 - Director of Audit's Report No.26 |
The Financial Secretary addressed the Council on the "Mass Transit Railway Corporation Annual Report 1995" and the "Kowloon-Canton Railway Corporation Annual Report 1995" which he presented.
A Member asked a question and the Financial Secretary replied.
1. Mr LAW Chi-kwong asked Question 1.
The Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.
Four Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.
2. Mr Michael HO asked Question 2.
The Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.
Six Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.
3. Mr YUM Sin-ling asked Question 3.
The Secretary for Home Affairs replied.
Ten Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Home Affairs replied.
4. Mr Albert CHAN asked Question 4.
The Secretary for Transport replied.
Two Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Transport replied.
5. Miss CHAN Yuen-han asked Question 5.
The Secretary for Transport replied.
Seven Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Transport replied.
Written replies to Questions 6 to 20 were tabled for Members information.
The bills were read the first time and ordered to be set down for second reading pursuant to Standing Order 41(3).
The Secretary for Economic Services moved the second reading and addressed the Council on each of the above two bills.
Question on the second reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Standing Orders, the debates on the above bills were adjourned and the bills were referred to the House Committee.
The Secretary for Security moved the second reading and addressed the Council.
Question on the second reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Standing Orders, the debate was adjourned and the bill was referred to the House Committee.
The Secretary for Trade and Industry moved the second reading and addressed the Council on each of the above two bills.
Question on the second reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Standing Orders, the debates on the above bills were adjourned and the bills were referred to the House Committee.
The Secretary for the Treasury moved the second reading and addressed the Council.
Question on the second reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Standing Orders, the debate was adjourned and the bill was referred to the House Committee.
Resumption of debate on second reading which had been moved on 8 November 1995.
Eight Members spoke on the motion.
The Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.
Question on second reading put and agreed to.
Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.
Resumption of debate on second reading which had been moved on 13 March 1996.
Question on second reading put and agreed to.
Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.
Resumption of debate on second reading which had been moved on 13 March 1996.
One Member spoke on the motion.
The Secretary for Financial Services replied.
Question on second reading put and agreed to.
Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.
Resumption of debate on second reading which had been moved on 22 November 1995.
Two Members spoke on the motion.
The Secretary for Security replied.
Question on second reading put and agreed to.
Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.
Resumption of debate on second reading which had been moved on 18 October 1995.
Two Members spoke on the motion.
The Secretary for Trade and Industry replied.
Question on second reading put and agreed to.
Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.
Resumption of debate on second reading which had been moved on 6 December 1995.
One Member spoke on the motion as well as the motion on the second reading of the Road Traffic (Amendment) (No.2) Bill 1995.
At 5:55 p.m., the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.
Another Member spoke on the motion.
The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands replied.
Question on second reading put and agreed to.
Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.
Resumption of debate on second reading which had been moved on 6 December 1995.
The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands replied.
Question on second reading put and agreed to.
Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.
Resumption of debate on second reading which had been moved on 15 November 1995.
Three Members spoke on the motion.
The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands replied.
At 6:42 p.m., the President resumed the chair.
Question on second reading put and agreed to.
Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.
Resumption of debate on second reading which had been moved on 29 November 1995.
Three Members spoke on the motion.
The Secretary for Home Affairs replied.
Question on second reading put. The President stated that he thought the motion had been carried.
Mr Howard YOUNG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).
The President announced that there were 33 votes for the motion and 16 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex I.) He declared that the motion was carried.
Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.
Resumption of debate on second reading which had been moved on 10 January 1996.
One Member spoke on the motion.
The Secretary for Home Affairs replied.
Question on second reading put and agreed to.
Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.
The Council went into Committee and considered the following bills:
Question that the following clauses stand part of the bill proposed.
Question on clauses 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10 to 17, 19, 20, 22, 23, 25, 28 to 35, 37, 39 and 42 to 47 put and agreed to.
The Secretary for Health and Welfare moved amendments to clauses 3, 6, 9, 18, 21, 26, 27, 36, 38, 40 and 41 and addressed the Committee.
Question on the amendments proposed.
One Member spoke on the amendments.
Question on the amendments put and agreed to.
Question that clauses 3, 6, 9, 18, 21, 26, 27, 36, 38, 40 and 41, as amended, stand part of the bill put and agreed to.
The Secretary for Health and Welfare moved an amendment to clause 24 and addressed the Committee.
Question on the amendment proposed, put and agreed to.
Mr LAW Chi-kwong moved a further amendment to clause 24 and addressed the Committee.
Question on the amendment proposed.
Three Members and the Secretary for Health and Welfare spoke on the amendment.
Mr LAW Chi-kwong replied.
Question on Mr LAW Chi-kwongs amendment put. The Chairman stated that he thought the amendment had been negatived.
Mr LAW Chi-kwong and Mr Michael HO claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Standing Order 36(4).
The Chairman announced that there were 34 votes for the amendment and 12 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex II.) He declared that Mr LAW Chi-kwongs amendment was agreed.
Question that clause 24, as amended, stand part of the bill put and agreed to.
New clause 39A read the first time.
The Secretary for Health and Welfare moved the second reading of new clause 39A and addressed the Committee. Question on the second reading of new clause 39A proposed, put and agreed to.
New clause 39A read the second time.
The Secretary for Health and Welfare moved the addition of new clause 39A to the bill. Question on the addition proposed, put and agreed to.
Question that the following clauses stand part of the bill proposed.
Question on clauses 1 to 7 put and agreed to.
Question that the following clauses stand part of the bill proposed.
Question on clauses 1, 3, 4 and 5 put and agreed to.
The Secretary for Financial Services moved an amendment to clause 2 and addressed the Committee.
Question on the amendment proposed, put and agreed to.
Question that clause 2, as amended, stand part of the bill put and agreed to.
Question that the following clauses stand part of the bill proposed.
Question on clauses 1, 2, 6 and 7 put and agreed to.
The Secretary for Security moved amendments to clauses 3, 4, 5 and 8 and addressed the Committee.
Question on the amendments proposed, put and agreed to.
Question that clauses 3, 4, 5 and 8, as amended, stand part of the bill put and agreed to.
Heading before new clause 9 and new clause 9 read the first time.
The Secretary for Security moved the second reading of the heading before new clause 9 and new clause 9. Question on the second reading of the heading before new clause 9 and new clause 9 proposed, put and agreed to.
Heading before new clause 9 and new clause 9 read the second time.
The Secretary for Security moved the addition of the heading before new clause 9 and new clause 9 to the bill. Question on the addition proposed, put and agreed to.
Question that the following clauses stand part of the bill proposed.
Question on clauses 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 12 to 16 and 19 to 26 put and agreed to.
The Secretary for Trade and Industry moved amendments to clauses 5, 6, 9, 10, 11, 17 and 18 and addressed the Committee.
Question on the amendments proposed, put and agreed to.
Question that clauses 5, 6, 9, 10, 11, 17 and 18, as amended, stand part of the bill put and agreed to.
Question that the following clauses stand part of the bill proposed.
The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands moved an amendment to clause 1 and addressed the Committee.
Question on the amendment proposed, put and agreed to.
Question that clause 1, as amended, stand part of the bill put and agreed to.
Question on clause 2 put and agreed to.
Question that the following clauses stand part of the bill proposed.
The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands moved an amendment to clause 1 and addressed the Committee.
Question on the amendment proposed, put and agreed to.
Question that clause 1, as amended, stand part of the bill put and agreed to.
Question on clauses 2 and 3 put and agreed to.
Question that the following clauses stand part of the bill proposed.
Question on clauses 1, 4 and 6 put and agreed to.
The Chairman stated that the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands had withdrawn his proposed amendment to clause 2.
The Chairman suspended the sitting at 7:59 p.m.
The Committee resumed at 8:05 p.m.
Mr Albert CHAN moved an amendment to clause 2 and addressed the Committee.
Question on the amendment proposed.
The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands spoke on the amendment.
Question on Mr Albert CHAN's amendment put and agreed to.
Question that clause 2, as amended, stand part of the bill put and agreed to.
Mr Albert CHAN moved an amendment to clause 3 and addressed the Committee.
Question on the amendment proposed, put and agreed to.
The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands moved a further amendment to clause 3 and addressed the Committee.
Question on the amendment proposed, put and agreed to.
Question that clause 3, as amended, stand part of the bill put and agreed to.
The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands moved an amendment to clause 5 and addressed the Committee.
Question on the amendment proposed, put and agreed to.
Question that clause 5, as amended, stand part of the bill put and agreed to.
Question that the following clauses stand part of the bill proposed.
Question on clauses 1 and 3 put and agreed to.
Mr Howard YOUNG moved an amendment to clause 2 and addressed the Committee.
Question on the amendment proposed.
The Secretary for Home Affairs spoke on the amendment.
Question on Mr Howard YOUNG's amendment put. The Chairman stated that he thought the amendment had been agreed.
Mr Howard YOUNG claimed a division. The Chairman then ordered the Committee to divide under Standing Order 36(4).
The Chairman announced that there were 39 votes for the amendment and none against it. (Voting record in Annex III.) He declared that Mr Howard YOUNGs amendment was agreed.
Question that clause 2, as amended, stand part of the bill put and agreed to.
Question that the following clauses stand part of the bill proposed.
Question on clause 1 put and agreed to.
The Secretary for Home Affairs moved an amendment to clause 2 and addressed the Committee.
Question on the amendment proposed, put and agreed to.
Question that clause 2, as amended, stand part of the bill put and agreed to.
The Council then resumed.
The Secretary for Health and Welfare reported that
had passed through Committee with amendments. She moved that the bill be read the third time and do pass.
Question on the third reading proposed, put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time and passed.
The Secretary for Financial Services reported that
had passed through Committee without amendment and
had passed through Committee with amendment. He moved that these two bills be read the third time and do pass.
Question on the third reading of the two bills proposed, put and agreed to.
Bills read the third time and passed.
The Secretary for Security reported that
had passed through Committee with amendments. He moved that the bill be read the third time and do pass.
Question on the third reading proposed, put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time and passed.
The Secretary for Trade and Industry reported that
had passed through Committee with amendments. She moved that the bill be read the third time and do pass.
Question on the third reading proposed, put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time and passed.
The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands reported that
had passed through Committee with amendments. He moved that these three bills be read the third time and do pass.
Question on the third reading of the three bills proposed, put and agreed to.
Bills read the third time and passed.
The Secretary for Home Affairs reported that
had passed through Committee with amendment. She moved that the bill be read the third time and do pass.
Question on the third reading proposed and put. The President stated that he thought the motion had been carried.
Mr Howard YOUNG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).
The President announced that there were 28 votes for the motion and 14 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex IV.) He declared that the motion on third reading was carried.
Bill read the third time and passed.
The Secretary for Home Affairs reported that
had passed through Committee with amendment. She moved that the bill be read the third time and do pass.
Question on the third reading proposed, put and agreed to
Bill read the third time and passed.
Mr Eric LI moved the following motion and addressed the Council:
That having regard to -
1) Governments acceptance of a paper presented by the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee on 19 November 1986 in this Council that the Committee should make further inquiry in cases where it appears from the Director of Audits report that in the setting of policy objectives there may have been a lack of sufficient relevant and reliable financial and other data available and that critical underlying assumptions may not have been made explicit;
2) the need in such cases for the Public Accounts Committee to have sight of documents evidencing what data were made available to Executive Council in its setting of the policy objectives in question and whether critical underlying assumptions had been made explicit in such documents; and
3) the fact that in attempting to make further inquiry into such a case arising out of the Director of Audits Report No. 25 the Committee was refused sight of such documents by Government on the ground that they belonged to a class which Government wished to keep confidential;
this Council condemns the Administration for refusing to cooperate with the Committee in the performance of its duties by resorting to claims of class confidentiality for Executive Council documents, rather than considering the actual contents of such documents, in cases where the Public Accounts Committee is seeking to carry out its duty of further inquiry on the Director of Audits reports.
Question on Mr Eric LI's motion proposed.
Five Members and the Chief Secretary spoke on the motion.
Mr Eric LI replied.
Question on the motion put. The President stated that he thought the motion had been carried.
Mr Eric LI claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).
The President announced that there were 37 votes for the motion and two against it. (Voting record in Annex V.) He declared that Mr Eric LI's motion was carried.
Mr MOK Ying-fan moved the following motion and addressed the Council:
That this Council urges the Government to increase community support services for the chronically ill, including increasing the employment opportunities, community medical and rehabilitation services as well as resources for developing self-help groups for these patients, so as to improve their quality of life.
Question on Mr MOK Ying-fan's motion proposed. The President proposed that the motion, the amendment and the amendment to amendment be debated together in a joint debate. There being no dissenting voice, the President ordered that the motion, the amendment and the amendment to amendment be debated together in a joint debate.
Mr LEE Cheuk-yan moved the following amendment to Mr MOK Ying-fan's motion and addressed the Council:
To delete "as well as" and substitute with ","; to add "as well as abolishing all itemized charges for medical services" after "patients"; and to add "relieve their financial burden and" after ", so as to".
Question on Mr LEE Cheuk-yan's amendment to Mr MOK Ying-fan's motion proposed.
Dr C H LEONG moved the following amendment to Mr LEE Cheuk-yan's proposed amendment and addressed the Council:
To delete "abolishing" and substitute with "rationalizing"; and to insert "including completely waiving such charges payable by those who have financial difficulties" after "medical services".
Question on Dr C H LEONG's amendment to Mr LEE Cheuk-yan's amendment proposed.
Nine Members spoke on the motion and the amendments.
The President invited Mr LEE Cheuk-yan to speak for the second time on Dr LEONGs amendment.
Mr MOK Ying-fan spoke on the amendments.
The Secretary for Health and Welfare and the Secretary for Education and Manpower spoke on the motion and the amendments.
Question on Dr LEONG's amendment to Mr LEE Cheuk-yan's amendment put. The President stated that he thought the amendment had been negatived.
Dr C H LEONG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).
The President announced that there were 10 votes for the amendment and 27 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex VI.) He declared that Dr LEONG's amendment to Mr LEE Cheuk-yan's amendment was negatived.
Question on Mr LEE Cheuk-yan's amendment to Mr Mok Ying-fan's motion put. The President stated that he thought the amendment had been negatived.
Mr Fred LI claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).
The President announced that there were 28 votes for the amendment and nine votes against it. (Voting record in Annex VII.) He declared that Mr LEE Cheuk-yan's amendment to Mr MOK Ying-fans motion was agreed.
Mr MOK Ying-fan replied.
Question on Mr MOK Ying-fan's motion as amended by Mr LEE Cheuk-yan put. The President stated that he thought the amended motion had been carried.
Dr C H LEONG and Mr MOK Ying-fan claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).
The President announced that there were 29 votes for the amended motion and 6 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex VIII.) He declared that Mr MOK Ying-fan's motion as amended by Mr LEE Cheuk-yan was carried.
In accordance with Standing Orders, the President adjourned the Council until Wednesday, 1 May 1996.
Adjourned accordingly at fifteen minutes past eleven oclock.
Last Updated on 29 July 1999
