LegCo Paper No. CB(3) 615/95-96

THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
MINUTES
No. 22 of 1995/96

Minutes of the sitting held on Wednesday 27 and Thursday 28 March 1996 at 2.30 p.m.

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Present:

President : The Honourable Andrew WONG Wang-fat, O.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable Allen LEE Peng-fei, C.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable Mrs. Selina CHOW LIANG Shuk-yee, O.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable Martin LEE Chu-ming, Q.C., J.P.
Dr. the Honourable David LI Kwok-po, O.B.E., LL.D.(Cantab), J.P.
The Honourable NGAI Shiu-kit, O.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable SZETO Wah
The Honourable LAU Wong-fat, O.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable Edward HO Sing-tin, O.B.E., J.P. (absent on 28.3.96)
The Honourable Ronald Joseph ARCULLI, O.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable Mrs. Miriam LAU Kin-yee, O.B.E., J.P.
Dr. the Honourable Edward LEONG Che-hung, O.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable Albert CHAN Wai-yip
The Honourable CHEUNG Man-kwong
The Honourable CHIM Pui-chung
The Honourable Frederick FUNG Kin-kee
The Honourable Michael HO Mun-ka
Dr. the Honourable HUANG Chen-ya, M.B.E.
The Honourable Emily LAU Wai-hing
The Honourable LEE Wing-tat
The Honourable Eric LI Ka-cheung, J.P.
The Honourable Fred LI Wah-ming
The Honourable Henry TANG Ying-yen, J.P.
The Honourable James TO Kun-sun
Dr. the Honourable Samuel WONG Ping-wai, M.B.E., F.Eng., J.P.
Dr. the Honourable Philip WONG Yu-hong
Dr. the Honourable YEUNG Sum
The Honourable Howard YOUNG, J.P.
The Honourable Zachary WONG Wai-yin
The Honourable Christine LOH Kung-wai
The Honourable James TIEN Pei-chun, O.B.E., J.P.
The Honourable LEE Cheuk-yan
The Honourable CHAN Kam-lam
The Honourable CHAN Wing-chan
The Honourable CHAN Yuen-han
The Honourable Andrew CHENG Kar-foo
The Honourable Paul CHENG Ming-fun (absent on 27.3.96)
The Honourable CHENG Yiu-tong
Dr. the Honourable Anthony CHEUNG Bing-leung (absent on 27.3.96)
The Honourable CHEUNG Hon-chung
The Honourable CHOY Kan-pui, J.P.
The Honourable David CHU Yu-lin
The Honourable Albert HO Chun-yan
The Honourable IP Kwok-him
The Honourable LAU Chin-shek
The Honourable Ambrose LAU Hon-chuen, J.P.
Dr. the Honourable LAW Cheung-kwok
The Honourable LAW Chi-kwong
The Honourable LEE Kai-ming
The Honourable LEUNG Yiu-chung
The Honourable Bruce LIU Sing-lee
The Honourable LO Suk-ching
The Honourable MOK Ying-fan (absent on 27.3.96)
The Honourable Margaret NG
The Honourable NGAN Kam-chuen
The Honourable SIN Chung-kai
The Honourable TSANG Kin-shing
Dr. the Honourable John TSE Wing-ling
The Honourable Mrs. Elizabeth WONG CHIEN Chi-lien, C.B.E., I.S.O., J.P.
The Honourable Lawrence YUM Sin-ling

In attendance:

The Honourable Mrs. Anson CHAN, C.B.E., J.P.

The Chief Secretary

The Honourable Donald TSANG Yam-kuen, O.B.E., J.P.

The Financial Secretary

The Honourable Jeremy Fell MATHEWS, C.M.G., J.P.

The Attorney General

Mr. Michael SUEN Ming-yeung, C.B.E., J.P.

Secretary for Home Affairs

Mr. CHAU Tak-hay, C.B.E., J.P.

Secretary for Recreation and Culture

Mr. Haider Hatim Tyebjee BARMA, I.S.O., J.P.

Secretary for Transport

Mr. Nicholas NG Wing-fui, J.P.

Secretary for Constitutional Affairs

Mr. Dominic WONG Shing-wah, O.B.E., J.P.

Secretary for Housing

Mrs. Katherine FOK LO Shiu-ching, O.B.E., J.P.

Secretary for Health and Welfare

Mr. Joseph WONG Wing-ping, J.P.

Secretary for Education and Manpower

Mr. Peter LAI Hing-ling, J.P.

Secretary for Security

Mr. Bowen LEUNG Po-wing, J.P.

Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands

Mr. KWONG Ki-chi, J.P.

Secretary for the Treasury

Mr. Leo KWAN Wing-wah, J.P.

Secretary for Economic Services

Clerks to the Legislative Council:

Mr. Ricky FUNG Choi-cheung, Secretary General
Mr. LAW Kam-sang, Deputy Secretary General
Miss Pauline NG Man-wah, Assistant Secretary General (1)
Mr. Ray CHAN Yum-mou, Assistant Secretary General (2)

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PAPERS

Subsidiary Legislation
Sessional Papers 1995/96
Miscellaneous

QUESTIONS
ANNOUNCEMENT
BILL

SECOND READING

• Appropriation Bill 1996
MEMBER'S MOTIONS

LANDLORD AND TENANT (CONSOLIDATION) ORDINANCE
INTERPRETATION AND GENERAL CLAUSES ORDINANCE
NEXT SITTING

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PAPERS

The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Standing Order 14(2):

Sessional Papers 1995/96

Miscellaneous

White Paper on the Annual Report on Hong Kong 1995 to Parliament

Initial Report of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in respect of Hong Kong under Article 44 of the Convention on the Rights of the Child

QUESTIONS

Written replies to Questions 1 to 20 were tabled for Members’ information.

ANNOUNCEMENT

The President stated that he had received a letter from a Member seeking clarification on the Standing Orders concerning the use of offensive and insulting language and how it could be discouraged. He explained that offensive and insulting language was regarded as unparliamentary language and should not be used in the proceedings of the Council and its committees. Under Standing Order 31(4), it was out of order to use offensive and insulting language about Members of the Council. Under Standing Order 31(5), a Member should not impute improper motives to another Member. The President pointed out that such objectionable language might fall into two kinds, one which reflected derogatorily on the character of other Members, and the other which was straightforward profane, abusive and indecent. He would rule both kinds of language out of order. He further stated that he would also rule out of order straightforward profane, abusive and indecent expressions spoken in the Council about persons who were not Members of the Council.

The President went on to say that if a Member of the Council inadvertently used in his or her speech language which was objectionable, he would request the Member to rephrase that part of the speech that he regarded as unparliamentary. If the Member concerned failed to take heed of such request, or failed to rephrase it in such a way as to make it unobjectionable, he would order that the relevant part of his or her speech be withdrawn forthwith, or an apology be offered. If the order was not observed, he would regard such conduct as grossly disorderly and order the Member to withdraw immediately from the Council for the remainder of the sitting, under Standing Order 34.

The President further ruled that under Standing Order 4C, the term 'Member' included designated public officers.

BILL

SECOND READING

Appropriation Bill 1996

Resumption of debate on second reading which had been moved on 6 March 1996.

In accordance with Standing Order 54(2) the Council resumed the debate on the Appropriation Bill 1996.

17 Members spoke on the motion.

At 5:45 p.m., the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

Another three Members spoke on the motion.

At 6:25 p.m., the President resumed the chair.

One further Member spoke on the motion.

A Member drew the attention of the President to the absence of a quorum. The President directed that the Council be suspended and Members be summoned. A quorum was then present.

10 further Members spoke on the motion.

The President suspended the sitting at 8:40 p.m.

The Council resumed at 2:30 p.m. on 28 March 1996 and continued with the second reading debate on the Appropriation Bill 1996.

14 Members spoke on the motion.

Before a Member rose to speak, the President stated that he had considered the Member's request for permission to sing two bars during the course of his speech. He said that although the Standing Orders were silent as to whether or not a Member might sing his or her speech or part of the speech, he was hesitated to rule to the extent of total relaxation. If songs were to be allowed, it would detract from the main purpose of a debate, as it would be very difficult, if not impossible to respond spontaneously to songs sung in the course of the debate. However, he had decided exceptionally to accept the singing of a short sentence as an illustration of a speech. He further stated that Members who wished to do so should bear the following in mind:

1. only a short sentence would be permitted, not a substantial part of a song or an entire song;
2. the line sung must contain words, not hum’s and ha’s, and the words must be relevant to the subject matter under debate; and
3. no accompanying music would be permitted.

Another four Members spoke on the motion.

At 5:55 p.m., the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

A further three Members spoke on the motion.

At 6:35 p.m., the President resumed the chair.

Three more Members spoke on the motion.

In response to a point of order raised by a Member regarding the President's intervention in the course of another Member's speech, the President stated that he would give Members an explanation for his intervention at the next sitting.

Another four Members spoke on the motion.

Dr. C.H. LEONG moved that the debate on the motion be adjourned.

Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.

MEMBER'S MOTIONS

LANDLORD AND TENANT (CONSOLIDATION) ORDINANCE

Mr. James TO moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Landlord and Tenant (Consolidation) Ordinance be amended by repealing sections 53A(4)(a) and 119F(4)(a) and substituting -

"(a) The compensation ordered by the Tribunal under subsection (2) shall be -

(i) where the rateable value of the premises does not exceed $90,000, an amount equal to 5 times the rateable value of the premises;

(ii) where the rateable value of the premises exceeds $90,000, the aggregate of $450,000 and an amount equal to 1.7 times the rateable value in excess of $90,000.".

Question on Mr. James TO's motion proposed. The President proposed that the motion and the two proposed amendments be debated together in a joint debate. There being no dissenting voice, the President ordered that the motion and the proposed amendments be debated together in a joint debate.

The Secretary for Housing and Dr. LAW Cheung-kwok addressed the Council on the motion and their proposed amendments respectively.

Ten Members spoke on the motion and the amendments.

Mr. James TO spoke on the amendments.

The President invited the Secretary for Housing to speak for the second time and stated that in doing so he had regard for the practice in the House of Commons of the United Kingdom Parliament where Ministers were usually allowed to speak again in debates.

The Secretary for Housing moved the amendment in Annex I to Mr. James TO's motion.

Question on the Secretary for Housing's amendment to Mr. James TO's motion proposed and put. The President stated that he thought the amendment had been negatived.

Dr. Philip WONG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

The President announced that there were 10 votes for the amendment and 35 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex II.) He declared that the Secretary for Housing's amendment to Mr. James TO's motion was negatived.

Dr. LAW Cheung-kwok moved the amendment in Annex III to Mr. James TO's motion.

Question on Dr. LAW Cheung-kwok's amendment to Mr. James TO's motion proposed and put. The President stated that he thought the amendment had been agreed.

Mr. Howard YOUNG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

The President announced that there were 38 votes for the amendment and 12 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex IV.) He declared that Dr. LAW Cheung-kwok's amendment to Mr. James TO's motion was agreed.

Mr. James TO replied.

Question on Mr. James TO's motion as amended by Dr. LAW Cheung-kwok put and agreed to.

INTERPRETATION AND GENERAL CLAUSES ORDINANCE

Mr. Ronald ARCULLI moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Hong Kong Airport (Traffic) (Amendment) Regulation 1996, published as Legal Notice No. 72 of 1996 and laid on the table of the Legislative Council on 14 February 1996, be repealed.

Question on Mr. Ronald ARCULLI's motion proposed.

The President stated that Dr. HUANG Chen-ya had given notice to move a motion under the Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance to amend the same regulation, that is, the Hong Kong Airport (Traffic) (Amendment) Regulation 1996. As the contents of Mr. Ronald ARCULLI's motion and Dr. HUANG Chen-ya's motion related to the same subject, he proposed that the two motions be debated together in a joint debate. There being no dissenting voice, the President ordered that the two motions be debated together in a joint debate.

Dr. HUANG Chen-ya spoke on Mr. Ronald ARCULLI's motion as well as on his own motion.

Two Members spoke on both motions.

The Secretary for Economic Services spoke on both motions.

Mr. Ronald ARCULLI replied.

Question on Mr. Ronald ARCULLI’s motion put. The President stated that he thought the motion had been negatived.

A Member claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

The President announced that there were 10 votes for the motion and 40 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex V.) He declared that Mr. Ronald ARCULLI’s motion was negatived.

Dr. HUANG Chen-ya moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Hong Kong Airport (Traffic) (Amendment) Regulation 1996, published as Legal Notice No. 72 of 1996 and laid on the table of the Legislative Council on 14 February 1996, be amended by repealing section 2(a) and substituting -

"(a) in item 1, by repealing "$16 per hour or part thereof" and "$32" and substituting "$9.50 per half hour or part thereof" and "$38" respectively;".

Question on Dr. HUANG Chen-ya’s motion proposed and put. The President stated that he thought the motion had been carried.

Mr. James TIEN claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order 36(4).

The President announced that there were 36 votes for the motion and 11 votes against it. (Voting record in Annex VI.) He declared that Dr. HUANG Chen-ya's motion was carried.

NEXT SITTING

In accordance with Standing Orders, the President adjourned the Council until Wednesday, 3 April 1996.

Adjourned accordingly at ten minutes past ten o’clock.

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