LegCo Paper No. CB(3) 577/96-97

THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

MINUTES
No. 18 of 1996-97
Minutes of the sitting held on Wednesday 29 January 1997 at 2:30 pm

Members present:

Members absent:

Public officers attending:

Mr Michael SUEN Ming-yeung, CBE, JP: The Chief Secretary
The Honourable Donald TSANG Yam-kuen, OBE, JP: The Financial Secretary
The Honourable Jeremy Fell MATHEWS, CMG, JP: The Attorney General
Mr Gordon SIU Kwing-chue, JP: Secretary for Transport
Mr Peter LAI Hing-ling, JP: Secretary for Security
Mr KWONG Ki-chi, JP: Secretary for the Treasury
Miss Denise YUE Chung-yee, JP: Secretary for Trade and Industry
Mr Stephen IP Shu-kwan, JP: Secretary for Economic Services
Mrs Doris HO KO Suet-yiu, JP: Secretary for Health and Welfare
Mr TAM Wing-pong, JP: Secretary for Trade and Industry (w.e.f. 6:30 pm on 29 January 1997)
Mrs Stella HUNG KWOK Wai-ching, JP: Secretary for Home Affairs
Mr Anthony Geffrey COOPER, JP: Deputy Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands

Clerks in attendance:

Mr Ricky FUNG Choi-cheung: Secretary General
Mr LAW Kam-sang: Deputy Secretary General
Miss Pauline NG Man-wah: Assistant Secretary General (1)
Mr Ray CHAN Yum-mou: Assistant Secretary General (3)

Papers

Sessional Papers 1996-97

Dangerous Drugs (Amendment) Bill 1997
Legal Aid (Amendment) Bill 1996
Environmental Impact Assessment Bill
Waste Disposal (Amendment) Bill 1996
Motor Vehicles (First Registration Tax) (Amendment) (No.2) Bill 1996
Electricity (Amendment) Bill 1996
Carriage by Air Bill
Committee Stage
Environmental Impact Assessment Bill
Waste Disposal (Amendment) Bill 1996
Motor Vehicles (First Registration Tax) (Amendment) (No.2) Bill 1996
Electricity (Amendment) Bill 1996
Carriage by Air Bill

Third Reading

the Legal Aid (Amendment) Bill 1996
the Environmental Impact Assessment Bill
the Waste Disposal (Amendment) Bill 1996

Members' Motions

Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance

Presidency of the Legislative Council of Hong Kong

Question on Mr David CHU's amendment to Mrs Elizabeth WONG's motion proposed.

Consultation paper on Copyright Bill

Next sitting

Papers

The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Standing Order No. 14(2):

Subsidiary Legislation	L.N. NO.
1. Post Office (Amendment) Regulation 1997	27/97
2. Telecommunication (Amendment) Regulation 1997	28/97
3. Amusement Rides (Safety) (Fees) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	29/97
4. Aerial Ropeways (Fees) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	30/97
5. Lifts and Escalators (Safety) (Fees) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	31/97
6. Electricity (Registration) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	32/97
7. Electricity (Wiring) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	33/97
8. Fire Services Department (Reports and Certificates) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	34/97
9. Gas Safety (Gas Supply) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	35/97
10. Gas Safety (Registration of Gas Installers and Gas Contractors) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	36/97
11. Gas Safety (Registration of Gas Supply Companies) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	37/97
12. Road Traffic (Parking) (Amendment) Regulation 1997	38/97
13. Official Languages (Alteration of Text Under Section 4D) (No.2) Order 1997	39/97
14. Places for Post-Mortem Examination (Amendment) Order 1997	40/97
15. Occupational Retirement Schemes (Preparation of Actuarial Certificates) Rules	41/97
16. Occupational Retirement Schemes (Periodic Certification of Registered Defined Benefit Schemes) Rules	42/97
17. Medical Registration (Amendment) Ordinance 1996 (7 of 1996) (Commencement) Notice 1997	43/97
18. Medical Registration (Fees) Regulation (L.N.517 of 1996) (Commencement) Notice 1997	44/97
19. Medical Registration (Miscellaneous Provisions) Regulation (L.N.520 of 1996) (Commencement) Notice 1997	45/97
20. Medical Practitioners (Registration and Disciplinary Procedure) Regulation (L.N.521 of 1996) (Commencement) Notice 1997	46/97
21. Wild Animals Protection (Amendment) Ordinance 1996 (77 of 1996) (Commencement) Notice 1997	47/97
22. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text)(Plant (Importation and Pest Control) (Ordinance) Order	(C) 3/97
23. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text)(Civil Aviation (Aircraft Noise) Ordinance) Order	(C) 4/97
24. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Antibiotics Ordinance) Order	(C) 5/97
25. Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Trading with the Enemy Ordinance) Order	(C) 6/97

Sessional Papers 1996-97

No.62 -	Hong Kong Council for Academic Accreditation Annual Report 1995-96
No.63 -	Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the Reports of the Director of Audit on the Accounts of the Hong Kong Government for the year ended 31 March 1996 and the Results of Value for Money Audits (January 1997 - P.A.C. Report No. 27)

Address

Mr Eric LI presented the "Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the Reports of the Director of Audit on the Accounts of the Hong Kong Government for the year ended 31 March 1996 and the Results of Value for Money Audits (January 1997 - P.A.C. Report No. 27)" and addressed the Council.

Questions

1. Mr YUM Sin-ling asked Question 1.

The Secretary for Security replied.

A Member asked one supplementary and the Secretary for Security replied.

2. Mr Fred LI asked Question 2.

The Secretary for Trade and Industry replied.

Four Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Trade and Industry replied.

3. Mrs Elizabeth WONG asked Question 3.

The Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

Two Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Health and Welfare replied.

4. Mr HO Chun-yan asked Question 4.

The Secretary for Transport replied.

Four Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Transport replied.

5. Mr Howard YOUNG asked Question 5.

The Secretary for Transport replied.

Two Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Transport replied.

6. Mr CHOY Kan-pui asked Question 6.

The Secretary for Security replied.

A Member asked one supplementary and the Secretary for Security replied.

Written replies to Questions 7 to 20 were tabled for Members* information.

Government Bills

First Reading

Mental Health (Amendment) Bill 1997

Dangerous Drugs (Amendment) Bill 1997

The Bills were read the first time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Standing Order No. 41(3).

Second Reading

Mental Health (Amendment) Bill 1997

The Secretary for Health and Welfare moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Standing Orders, the debate was adjourned and the Bill was referred to the House Committee.

Dangerous Drugs (Amendment) Bill 1997

The Secretary for Security moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council.

Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Standing Orders, the debate was adjourned and the Bill was referred to the House Committee.

Legal Aid (Amendment) Bill 1996

Resumption of debate on Second Reading which had been moved on 8 January 1997.

A Member spoke on the motion.

At 3:48 pm, the President's Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

Another Member spoke on the motion.

The Chief Secretary replied.

Question on Second Reading put and agreed to.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

At 3:59 pm, the President resumed the chair.

Environmental Impact Assessment Bill

Resumption of debate on Second Reading which had been moved on 31 January 1996.

Four Members spoke on the motion.

The Deputy Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands replied.

Question on Second Reading put and agreed to.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

Waste Disposal (Amendment) Bill 1996

Resumption of debate on Second Reading which had been moved on 3 July 1996.

Question on Second Reading put and agreed to.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

Motor Vehicles (First Registration Tax) (Amendment) (No.2) Bill 1996

Resumption of debate on Second Reading which had been moved on 13 November 1996.

Question on Second Reading put and agreed to.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

Electricity (Amendment) Bill 1996

Resumption of debate on Second Reading which had been moved on 3 April 1996.

Question on Second Reading put and agreed to.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

Carriage by Air Bill

Resumption of debate on Second Reading which had been moved on 4 December 1996.

Question on Second Reading put and agreed to.

Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council.

Committee Stage

The Council went into Committee and considered the following Bills:

Legal Aid (Amendment) Bill 1996

Question that the following clauses stand part of the Bill proposed.

Question on clauses 1 to 6 put and agreed to.

Environmental Impact Assessment Bill

Question that the following clauses and schedules stand part of the Bill proposed.

Question on clauses 1, 2 , 7, 9, 11, 15, 18, 20 to 23, 25, 27, 28, 29, 31, 33 and 34 put and agreed to.

The Deputy Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands moved amendments to clauses 3 to 6, 8, 10, 12, 13, 14, 16, 17, 19, 24, 26, 30 and 32 and addressed the Committee.

Question on the amendment proposed, put and agreed to.

Question that clauses 3 to 6, 8, 10, 12, 13, 14, 16, 17, 19, 24, 26, 30 and 32, as amended, stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.

The Deputy Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands moved amendments to schedules 1, 2 and 4 and addressed the Committee.

Question on the amendments put and agreed to.

Question that schedules 1, 2 and 4, as amended, stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.

Question on schedule 3 put and agreed to.

Waste Disposal (Amendment) Bill 1996

Question that the following clauses stand part of the Bill proposed.

Question on clauses 1, 2 and 3 put and agreed to.

Motor Vehicles (First Registration Tax) (Amendment) (No.2) Bill 1996

Question that the following clauses and schedule stand part of the Bill proposed.

Question on clauses 1 to 6, 8, 10 and 11 put and agreed to.

The Secretary for the Treasury moved amendments to clauses 7 and 9 and addressed the Committee.

Question on the amendments proposed, put and agreed to.

Question that clauses 7 and 9, as amended, stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.

Question on schedule put and agreed to.

Electricity (Amendment) Bill 1996

Question that the following clauses stand part of the Bill proposed.

A Member spoke on the motion.

The Secretary for Economics Services replied.

Question on clauses 1 to 11 put and agreed to.

Carriage by Air Bill

Question that the following clauses and schedules stand part of the Bill proposed.

Question on clauses 1 to 20 put and agreed to.

Question on schedules 1 to 5 put and agreed to.

The Council then resumed.

Third Reading

The Chief Secretary reported that

the Legal Aid (Amendment) Bill 1996

had passed through Committee without amendment. She moved that the Bill be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the Third Reading proposed, put and agreed to.

Bill read the third time and passed.

The Deputy Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands reported that

the Environmental Impact Assessment Bill

had passed through Committee with amendments and

the Waste Disposal (Amendment) Bill 1996

had passed through Committee without amendment. He moved that these two Bills be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the Third Reading of the two Bills proposed, put and agreed to.

Bills read the third time and passed.

The Secretary for the Treasury reported that

the Motor Vehicles (First Registration Tax) (Amendment) (No.2) Bill 1996

had passed through Committee with amendments. He moved that the Bill be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the Third Reading proposed, put and agreed to.

Bill read the third time and passed.

The Secretary for Economic Services reported that

the Electricity (Amendment) Bill 1996 and

the Carriage by Air Bill

had passed through Committee without amendment. He moved that these two Bills be read the third time and do pass.

Question on the Third Reading of the two Bills proposed, put and agreed to.

Bills read the third time and passed.

Members' Motions

Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance

Mr Fred LI moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That the Travel Industry Compensation Fund (Amount of Ex gratia Payments and Financial Penalty) (Amendment) (No.2) Rules 1996, published as Legal Notice No.544 of 1996 and laid on the table of the Legislative Council on 8 January 1997, be amended -

in section 2 by repealing "90%" and substituting "100%";
in section 3 by repealing "90%" and substituting "100%";
in section 5(a), (b) and (c) by repealing "90%" wherever it appears and substituting "100%";
in section 6, in the new section 6 by repealing "90%" and substituting "100%".

Question on the motion proposed.

Five Members and the Secretary for Trade and Industry spoke on the motion.

Mr Fred LI replied.

Question on the motion put. As the President could not judge from the voice votes whether the 'ayes' had it or the 'noes' had it, he ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order No. 36(4).

The President announced that there were 21 votes for the motion and 28 votes against it. (Voting record in Appendix I.) He declared that the motion was negatived.

Presidency of the Legislative Council of Hong Kong

Before calling on Mrs Elizabeth WONG to move her motion, the President explained why he had ruled that Mrs WONG might not raise the subject matter contained in her motion for debate in an adjournment debate, as she had originally intended. The President said that Mrs WONG first gave notice on 10 January 1997 of her intention to initiate an adjournment debate in the Council. The terms of her notice were
She sent in a revised notice on 13 January 1997, adding the words which, in the President's view, were intended to render the matter for debate a Government concern.

After she had been advised by the Secretariat of the provisions in the Standing Orders governing adjournment debates, Mrs WONG further changed the terms of her proposed adjournment debate by submitting 'Independence, impartiality and credibility of the President of the Legislative Council' as the topic for the debate. The President ruled the proposed adjournment debate out of order because the matter was not one for which the Government was responsible. Subsequently, Mrs WONG further changed the terms of the notice of her proposed adjournment debate to what was printed on the Order Paper. However, the proposed topic was again couched in the form of a full-scale motion, and failed to satisfy the requirements of Standing Order No. 9(1). Having regard to Erskine May (P.325-6, 21st Edition) which stated that 'certain matters cannot be debated, except on a substantive motion which allows a distinct decision of the House. Among these are the conduct of ...... the Speaker, ......Members of either House of Parliament .... Such matter cannot, therefore, be raised by way of ..... an adjournment motion.', the President was of the view that in the case of Hong Kong, this principle applied to the President and Members of the Council. He had therefore ruled that Mrs WONG's topic or motion should be debated as a substantive motion, and not as an adjournment motion.

The President further stated that he had considered very carefully whether he would preside over the debate on Mrs WONG's motion as her motion was on the presidency of the Council. Having studied the practice in the House of Commons of the British Parliament where the Speaker was always in the House presiding over debates on motions commenting or reflecting on the Speaker's action, the President decided that he should preside over the debate on Mrs WONG's motion.

Mrs Elizabeth WONG moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That, in view of the Government's staunch opposition to the setting up of the provisional legislature and the public's strong reaction to the decision of the Honourable Andrew WONG, President of the Legislative Council, to join the provisional legislature, in the event that the Honourable Andrew WONG does not resign from the presidency of the Council so as to safeguard the impartiality and integrity of the office, this Council urges the Government to seek a declaration from the court that:

Question on Mrs Elizabeth WONG's motion proposed. The President stated that Mr David CHU had given notice to move an amendment to the motion. He proposed that the motion and the proposed amendment be debated together in a joint debate. There being no dissenting voice, the President ordered that the motion and the proposed amendment be debated together in a joint debate.

Mr David CHU moved the following amendment to Mrs Elizabeth WONG's motion and addressed the Council:

To delete ", in view of the Government's staunch opposition to the setting up of the provisional legislature and the public's strong reaction to the decision of" and substitute with "this Council believes that"; to delete "to join the provisional legislature, in the event that the Honourable Andrew WONG does not resign from the presidency of the Council so as" and substitute with "will still have the ability"; to delete "the" of "the office" and substitute with "his"; to add "as the President of this Council" after "office"; and to delete ", this Council urges the Government to seek a declaration from the court that:

the Honourable Andrew WONG, being president of the Legislative Council, has conflicts of interest when required to adjudicate on issues relating to the provisional legislature of which he is a member" and substitute with "after joining the provisional legislature, and will help in the continuity of the legislature".

Question on Mr David CHU's amendment to Mrs Elizabeth WONG's motion proposed.

19 Members spoke on the motion and the amendment.

Mrs Elizabeth WONG spoke on the amendment.

Question on Mr David CHU's amendment to Mrs Elizabeth WONG's motion put. As the President could not judge from the voice votes whether the 'ayes' had it or the 'noes' had it, he ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order No. 36(4).

The President announced that there were 29 votes for the amendment and 23 votes against it. (Voting record in Appendix II.) He declared that Mr David CHU's amendment to Mrs Elizabeth WONG's motion was agreed.

Mrs Elizabeth WONG replied.

Question on Mrs Elizabeth WONG's motion as amended by Mr David CHU put. As the President could not judge from the voice votes whether the 'ayes' had it or the 'noes' had it, he ordered the Council to divide under Standing Order No. 36(4).

The President announced that there were 29 votes for the amended motion and 23 votes against it. (Voting record in Appendix III.) He declared that Mrs Elizabeth WONG's motion as amended by Mr David CHU was carried.

Consultation paper on Copyright Bill

Mr Henry TANG moved the following motion and addressed the Council:

That this Council urges the Government to consider carefully all views put forward on the Copyright Bill consultation document so as to ensure that the right and equitable balance of interest is struck between the copyright owner, the exclusive licensee, the parallel importer and the consumer.

Question on the motion proposed.

At 8:10 pm, the President Deputy took the chair during the temporary absence of the President.

Four Members and the Secretary for Trade and Industry spoke on the motion.

At 8:46 pm, the President resumed the chair.

Mr Henry TANG replied.

Question on the motion put and agreed to.

Next sitting

In accordance with Standing Orders, the President adjourned the Council until Wednesday 19 February 1997.

Adjourned accordingly at two minutes to nine o*clock.

(Andrew WONG)
President
Council Chamber
Hong Kong

Last Updated on {{PUBLISH AUTO[[DATE("d mmm, yyyy")]]}}

THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

MINUTES No. 18 of 1996-97 Minutes of the sitting held on Wednesday 29 January 1997 at 2:30 pm

Papers

Sessional Papers 1996-97

Address

Questions

Government Bills

First Reading

Second Reading

Dangerous Drugs (Amendment) Bill 1997

Legal Aid (Amendment) Bill 1996

Environmental Impact Assessment Bill

Waste Disposal (Amendment) Bill 1996

Motor Vehicles (First Registration Tax) (Amendment) (No.2) Bill 1996

Electricity (Amendment) Bill 1996

Carriage by Air Bill

Committee Stage

Environmental Impact Assessment Bill

Waste Disposal (Amendment) Bill 1996

Motor Vehicles (First Registration Tax) (Amendment) (No.2) Bill 1996

Electricity (Amendment) Bill 1996

Carriage by Air Bill

Third Reading

the Legal Aid (Amendment) Bill 1996

the Environmental Impact Assessment Bill

the Waste Disposal (Amendment) Bill 1996

Members' Motions

Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance

Presidency of the Legislative Council of Hong Kong

Question on Mr David CHU's amendment to Mrs Elizabeth WONG's motion proposed.

Consultation paper on Copyright Bill

Next sitting

MINUTES
No. 18 of 1996-97
Minutes of the sitting held on Wednesday 29 January 1997 at 2:30 pm